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RE: [Bfix] License To Wheel (Was:Moab/utah Closings)

From: David Routhier <david_r_at_corp.earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:01:29 -0800

        First off, I was lucky enough to get to remove a human turd from my dog's
mouth yesterday while hiking on public lands. Nice fresh one. Second time
in a year and a half. Just thought I'd share my most revolting experience
with the list.
        Unfortunately, use fees don't work. We have land use permits for the
National Forest in So Cal (Adventure Pass). If you park your car in the NF
(outside of a campground), you have to have a $30 yearly pass. I have seen
nothing good come out of these additional funds being added into the FS
budget. What I have seen is an increase in gang tagging of some really
pretty places. Related? I doubt it. But, if I'm paying money to visit
PUBLIC places, there really ought to be some visible benefit. From my
viewpoint, I haven't experienced no tangible benefits. I have never seen a
Ranger out writing tickets for littering, etc.
        In fact, I think there are negative connotations to the use fee. I think
these idiots become indignant that they have to pay AND clean up after
themselves. After all, why should they be responsible for cleaning up for
themselves when they are paying to use the facilities. Aren't there college
kids running around with dustpans like at DisneyLand?
        What it boils down to is you can't force people to give a shit. They
either do, or they don't. Thank their parents for instilling these ideals
into their selfish selves.
        Don't construe this to say I am against use fees. But, I am against the
double jeopardy we have because of taxes AND use fees. We already pay the
use fee you are suggesting. Just like we all pay for elections with our
taxes? Should we also reinstitute the poll tax and a literacy test for the
right to vote?

        Do I get a refund for all the trash I pickup (and all the human waste my
dogs remove)?


David Routhier

Making a difference, one bag of trash at a time.



-----Original Message-----
From: mail-owner_at_broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner_at_broncofix.com]On
Behalf Of Brett Kinch
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:21 AM
To: bfix; ebml
Subject: Re: [Bfix] [EBML] License To Wheel (Was:Moab/utah Closings)


  Yes, but you have a boating license for your boat, no? Same with the
jokers... I they are walking on public land, it constitutes as hiking under
the Public Land Use License and they need that license. They would be pegged
as well. This way, no one gets on Public Land unless they took a test,
recieved a license, and Learned something about taking care of that Public
Land.
   I think an event like the two locations at EJS on Public Land should have
an admission charge. Even if it's $2. This will help offset the cost of
controlling a crowd of that size and litter clean up. If ya wanna play ( or
watch, in this case ) ya gotta pay.....
I like the paddy wagon idea. I think penalties for offenders should be
upheld at events such as these. It makes them Learn.....
Brett Kinch
Rock-Quip
www.rock-quip.rockcrawler.com



> What if your not wheeling? Meaning I can go on the water, in a boat as
long as I dont fish....so I dont need a fishing permit/ license. Same with
these jokers......what if they walk up to the event and dont wheel.....then
only the ones that are participating in the actaul event are pegged with the
permit, ect.
>
> Seems the easiest way, like you mentioned is a designated parking area,
where nothing is charged because it is public land (BLM), but fenced/
partition/ barricaded/ whatever to check everyone comming and going, with a
huge sign posted....stating that since it is "...regulated via Federal
Funding...federal charges can/ will be assesed for violence, glass
containers, disorderly conduct..blah..blah..blah". Just make the fine so
huge that if they cant pay on the spot, they go to the local "pokey" for a
nights stay unless they can make bail and pay the fines. Great money maker
for the city and keeps the "rowdies" tamned.
>
> Texas beaches have been doing this for years. You have to buy a permit to
be on the beach. Massive party, but if you get caught with glass, fighting,
or anything illegal.....pay the big fine or go to the "mobile" jail...a big
panel van...and wait a few hours (in a stinky, puked in enclosed van...in
hand cuffs) until they take you to the jail...then you fill out your
paperwork...pay the fine...get to leave....or no money=over night stay.
>
> Not that I've ever been in this situation, but I did have to get my
friends out before. Needless to say, great moneymaker for the city and
really makes you behave after you've been taken down....or should...in
theory.
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Brett Kinch" <kinchx4_at_earthlink.net>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:36:20 -0700
>
> > I agree....More than one cop , however. There can be a crowd of a
thousand
> >at Dump Bump and Potato Salad Hill at Easter Jeep Safari Week; sometimes
> >more.....
> > It's outa hand in a big way. Lots of drunken idiots throwing beer cans
and
> >bottles everywhere, starting fights, and lit up loose cannons behind the
> >wheel. It's more of a crowd control thing than it is a policing. It's
alot
> >like a concert event.
> > I think the best thing to do is to Have the Red Rock 4 Wheelers work in
> >conjuntion with the Moab Police Department during EJS Week, to lease out
> >both locations and have them fenced off with an admission charge at the
> >gate.This would allow them to pay for controlled parking, crowd control,
and
> >litter clean up. Moreover, the Police can monitor the gates and inner
areas
> >to convisgate alchohol, and arrest the disorderly. It's these two
locations
> >that are easily accessible by drunken onlookers with nothing better to
do,
> >and they need to be monitored.
> > It's always the ignorant that mess things up for the aware. I think
there
> >needs to be a big change in the way the BLM runs its' public lands for
all
> >sorts of use Nation Wide. I believe a great way to teach the ignorant
about
> >Use is to make a Mandatory OHV and Public Land Use License for Nation
Wide
> >Public Land. Everything needs to be on the same page to eliminate
hipocracy.
> >We all need a fishing license, no? They hand out booklets on what is fair
> >game and limits on fishing. I think there should be a test so at least
> >everyone will have to actually read the booklet before one can get a
> >license. I think this should carry over into a New OHV and Public Land
Use
> >license. By giving out handbooks and having a short mandatory test before
> >one can get a License to Wheel, it will far reduce the ignorance and
> >offenders of Public Land. The cost of getting a license and renewing
every
> >year should pay for itself, as well as help offset the cost for OHV
Rangers
> >to write big fat citations to offenders of the land or people without a
> >license. Big offenses can revoke a license for a year or for life
depending
> >on severity.
> >Jusy my thoughts on a possible solution to ignorance.
> >btw, wouldn't an OHV Ranger be a kick butt job? Wheel all day and protect
> >the trails from idiots.
> >Brett Kinch
> >Rock-Quip
> >www.rock-quip.rockcrawler.com
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> rather than close areas maybe they should put a cop at the locations
> >> and tie hes bonus to citations.
> >>
> >> >From: "Steve and Nancy George" <nsgeorge_at_cyberport.com>
> >> >To: <bronc_at_yahoogroups.com>, "Bronco Fix" <mail_at_broncofix.com>,
> >> <ebml_at_bronco.com>, "Ben Saunders" <ben_at_vintagefordbronco.com>
> >> >Date: 2/2/02 5:27:39 PM
> >> >
> >>
> >> >I love to wheel Moab! live only 3 hours from there, but you
> >> know what there
> >> >are so many drunken stupid at the Dump Bump and at Potato Salad
> >> hill that I
> >> >have a hard time not siding with some of the local folks that
> >> want to close
> >> >them down :^( Don't get me wrong I don't want any clousers
> >> but if you go to
> >> >Moab keep what I said in mind both of these areas hasve turned
> >> into a large
> >> >drunken brawl and to me that's not what wheelig is about. My
> >> $.02 Steve
> >> >George Farmington NM
> >> >----- Original Message -----
> >> >From: "Ben Saunders" <ben_at_vintagefordbronco.com>
> >> >To: <bronc_at_yahoogroups.com>; "Bronco Fix" <mail_at_broncofix.com>;
> >> ><ebml_at_bronco.com>
> >> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 5:11 PM
> >> >Subject: [EBML] Moab/utah facing multiple closings
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hey guys and gals
> >> >> I know a lot of us are not from Utah, but a lot of us also
> >> go to Moab so I
> >> >> figured we would be interested in it, besides all of us need
> >> to get more
> >> >> active all over if we want to maintain any areas to have access
> >> to with
> >> >our
> >> >> 4x's
> >> >>
> >> >> info about new proposed national monument in Utah -
> >> >> http://www.off-road.com/land/san_rafael_monument.html
> >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28464
> >> >>
> >> >> possible closing of potato salad hill -
> >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26575
> >> >>
> >> >> and possible closing of Dump bump -
> >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29097
> >> >>
> >> >> - Ben Saunders
> >> >> '74 Bronco - Colorado
> >> >> http://www.HBS-performance-offroad.com - Setrab coolers, Corbeau
> >> seats,
> >> >> Firestik antennas, K-4 switches, Mechanix wear, CTM u-joints.......
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
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>
> --
> Jody Kunze
>
> --
>
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Received on Mon Feb 04 2002 - 12:11:15 MST


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