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Re: [Bfix] License To Wheel (Was:Moab/utah Closings)

From: errol mutschke <errol_mutschke_at_telus.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:57:24 -0800

Sounds almost as nice as when the dog rolls in it. Oue female has done that
or eat it like you said.
 Errol
----- Original Message -----
From: David Routhier <david_r_at_corp.earthlink.net>
To: 'Brett Kinch' <kinchx4_at_earthlink.net>; 'bfix' <mail_at_broncofix.com>;
'ebml' <ebml_at_bronco.com>
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Bfix] [EBML] License To Wheel (Was:Moab/utah Closings)


> First off, I was lucky enough to get to remove a human turd from my dog's
> mouth yesterday while hiking on public lands. Nice fresh one. Second time
> in a year and a half. Just thought I'd share my most revolting experience
> with the list.
> Unfortunately, use fees don't work. We have land use permits for the
> National Forest in So Cal (Adventure Pass). If you park your car in the
NF
> (outside of a campground), you have to have a $30 yearly pass. I have
seen
> nothing good come out of these additional funds being added into the FS
> budget. What I have seen is an increase in gang tagging of some really
> pretty places. Related? I doubt it. But, if I'm paying money to visit
> PUBLIC places, there really ought to be some visible benefit. From my
> viewpoint, I haven't experienced no tangible benefits. I have never seen
a
> Ranger out writing tickets for littering, etc.
> In fact, I think there are negative connotations to the use fee. I think
> these idiots become indignant that they have to pay AND clean up after
> themselves. After all, why should they be responsible for cleaning up for
> themselves when they are paying to use the facilities. Aren't there
college
> kids running around with dustpans like at DisneyLand?
> What it boils down to is you can't force people to give a shit. They
> either do, or they don't. Thank their parents for instilling these ideals
> into their selfish selves.
> Don't construe this to say I am against use fees. But, I am against the
> double jeopardy we have because of taxes AND use fees. We already pay the
> use fee you are suggesting. Just like we all pay for elections with our
> taxes? Should we also reinstitute the poll tax and a literacy test for
the
> right to vote?
>
> Do I get a refund for all the trash I pickup (and all the human waste my
> dogs remove)?
>
>
> David Routhier
>
> Making a difference, one bag of trash at a time.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mail-owner_at_broncofix.com [mailto:mail-owner_at_broncofix.com]On
> Behalf Of Brett Kinch
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 10:21 AM
> To: bfix; ebml
> Subject: Re: [Bfix] [EBML] License To Wheel (Was:Moab/utah Closings)
>
>
> Yes, but you have a boating license for your boat, no? Same with the
> jokers... I they are walking on public land, it constitutes as hiking
under
> the Public Land Use License and they need that license. They would be
pegged
> as well. This way, no one gets on Public Land unless they took a test,
> recieved a license, and Learned something about taking care of that Public
> Land.
> I think an event like the two locations at EJS on Public Land should
have
> an admission charge. Even if it's $2. This will help offset the cost of
> controlling a crowd of that size and litter clean up. If ya wanna play
 or
> watch, in this case ) ya gotta pay.....
> I like the paddy wagon idea. I think penalties for offenders should be
> upheld at events such as these. It makes them Learn.....
> Brett Kinch
> Rock-Quip
> www.rock-quip.rockcrawler.com
>
>
>
> > What if your not wheeling? Meaning I can go on the water, in a boat as
> long as I dont fish....so I dont need a fishing permit/ license. Same
with
> these jokers......what if they walk up to the event and dont
wheel.....then
> only the ones that are participating in the actaul event are pegged with
the
> permit, ect.
> >
> > Seems the easiest way, like you mentioned is a designated parking area,
> where nothing is charged because it is public land (BLM), but fenced/
> partition/ barricaded/ whatever to check everyone comming and going, with
a
> huge sign posted....stating that since it is "...regulated via Federal
> Funding...federal charges can/ will be assesed for violence, glass
> containers, disorderly conduct..blah..blah..blah". Just make the fine so
> huge that if they cant pay on the spot, they go to the local "pokey" for a
> nights stay unless they can make bail and pay the fines. Great money maker
> for the city and keeps the "rowdies" tamned.
> >
> > Texas beaches have been doing this for years. You have to buy a permit
to
> be on the beach. Massive party, but if you get caught with glass,
fighting,
> or anything illegal.....pay the big fine or go to the "mobile" jail...a
big
> panel van...and wait a few hours (in a stinky, puked in enclosed van...in
> hand cuffs) until they take you to the jail...then you fill out your
> paperwork...pay the fine...get to leave....or no money=over night stay.
> >
> > Not that I've ever been in this situation, but I did have to get my
> friends out before. Needless to say, great moneymaker for the city and
> really makes you behave after you've been taken down....or should...in
> theory.
> > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > From: "Brett Kinch" <kinchx4_at_earthlink.net>
> > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 09:36:20 -0700
> >
> > > I agree....More than one cop , however. There can be a crowd of a
> thousand
> > >at Dump Bump and Potato Salad Hill at Easter Jeep Safari Week;
sometimes
> > >more.....
> > > It's outa hand in a big way. Lots of drunken idiots throwing beer
cans
> and
> > >bottles everywhere, starting fights, and lit up loose cannons behind
the
> > >wheel. It's more of a crowd control thing than it is a policing. It's
> alot
> > >like a concert event.
> > > I think the best thing to do is to Have the Red Rock 4 Wheelers work
in
> > >conjuntion with the Moab Police Department during EJS Week, to lease
out
> > >both locations and have them fenced off with an admission charge at the
> > >gate.This would allow them to pay for controlled parking, crowd
control,
> and
> > >litter clean up. Moreover, the Police can monitor the gates and inner
> areas
> > >to convisgate alchohol, and arrest the disorderly. It's these two
> locations
> > >that are easily accessible by drunken onlookers with nothing better to
> do,
> > >and they need to be monitored.
> > > It's always the ignorant that mess things up for the aware. I think
> there
> > >needs to be a big change in the way the BLM runs its' public lands for
> all
> > >sorts of use Nation Wide. I believe a great way to teach the ignorant
> about
> > >Use is to make a Mandatory OHV and Public Land Use License for Nation
> Wide
> > >Public Land. Everything needs to be on the same page to eliminate
> hipocracy.
> > >We all need a fishing license, no? They hand out booklets on what is
fair
> > >game and limits on fishing. I think there should be a test so at least
> > >everyone will have to actually read the booklet before one can get a
> > >license. I think this should carry over into a New OHV and Public Land
> Use
> > >license. By giving out handbooks and having a short mandatory test
before
> > >one can get a License to Wheel, it will far reduce the ignorance and
> > >offenders of Public Land. The cost of getting a license and renewing
> every
> > >year should pay for itself, as well as help offset the cost for OHV
> Rangers
> > >to write big fat citations to offenders of the land or people without a
> > >license. Big offenses can revoke a license for a year or for life
> depending
> > >on severity.
> > >Jusy my thoughts on a possible solution to ignorance.
> > >btw, wouldn't an OHV Ranger be a kick butt job? Wheel all day and
protect
> > >the trails from idiots.
> > >Brett Kinch
> > >Rock-Quip
> > >www.rock-quip.rockcrawler.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> rather than close areas maybe they should put a cop at the locations
> > >> and tie hes bonus to citations.
> > >>
> > >> >From: "Steve and Nancy George" <nsgeorge_at_cyberport.com>
> > >> >To: <bronc_at_yahoogroups.com>, "Bronco Fix" <mail_at_broncofix.com>,
> > >> <ebml_at_bronco.com>, "Ben Saunders" <ben_at_vintagefordbronco.com>
> > >> >Date: 2/2/02 5:27:39 PM
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> >I love to wheel Moab! live only 3 hours from there, but you
> > >> know what there
> > >> >are so many drunken stupid at the Dump Bump and at Potato Salad
> > >> hill that I
> > >> >have a hard time not siding with some of the local folks that
> > >> want to close
> > >> >them down :^( Don't get me wrong I don't want any clousers
> > >> but if you go to
> > >> >Moab keep what I said in mind both of these areas hasve turned
> > >> into a large
> > >> >drunken brawl and to me that's not what wheelig is about. My
> > >> $.02 Steve
> > >> >George Farmington NM
> > >> >----- Original Message -----
> > >> >From: "Ben Saunders" <ben_at_vintagefordbronco.com>
> > >> >To: <bronc_at_yahoogroups.com>; "Bronco Fix" <mail_at_broncofix.com>;
> > >> ><ebml_at_bronco.com>
> > >> >Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 5:11 PM
> > >> >Subject: [EBML] Moab/utah facing multiple closings
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >> Hey guys and gals
> > >> >> I know a lot of us are not from Utah, but a lot of us also
> > >> go to Moab so I
> > >> >> figured we would be interested in it, besides all of us need
> > >> to get more
> > >> >> active all over if we want to maintain any areas to have access
> > >> to with
> > >> >our
> > >> >> 4x's
> > >> >>
> > >> >> info about new proposed national monument in Utah -
> > >> >> http://www.off-road.com/land/san_rafael_monument.html
> > >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28464
> > >> >>
> > >> >> possible closing of potato salad hill -
> > >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26575
> > >> >>
> > >> >> and possible closing of Dump bump -
> > >> >> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29097
> > >> >>
> > >> >> - Ben Saunders
> > >> >> '74 Bronco - Colorado
> > >> >> http://www.HBS-performance-offroad.com - Setrab coolers, Corbeau
> > >> seats,
> > >> >> Firestik antennas, K-4 switches, Mechanix wear, CTM
u-joints.......
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------
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> >
> > --
> > Jody Kunze
> >
> > --
> >
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Received on Mon Feb 04 2002 - 14:02:21 MST


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